Tuesday 17 January 2012

Exodus- Discussions and Questions

16 comments:

  1. Pastor Brandon, A question from a fellow reader:
    Exodus 3: 7 The LORD said, I have indeed seen the misery of my people in Egypt. I have heard them crying out because of their slave drivers, and I am concerned about their suffering.
    8 So I have come down to rescue them from the hand of the Egyptians and to bring them up out of that land into a good and spacious land, a land flowing with milk and honey— the home of the Canaanites, Hittites, Amorites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites.
    9 And now the cry of the Israelites has reached me, and I have seen the way the Egyptians are oppressing them.

    My question. verse 9 says NOW way only now and not stop suffering before happen?Mean didn't listen to them before or what?

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    1. Great question! It shows careful observation of the text.

      First:
      Some of this can be answered by looking at other translations. Most look something like this: "Now, behold, the cry of the sons of Israel has come to Me; furthermore, I have seen the oppression with which the Egyptians are oppressing them." -NASB

      So the "Now" is less of "finally their cries have arrived" and more like "Now watch this, I've heard, I've seen, and I'm about kick butt."

      Also note that the tone in Exodus 2:23-25 is of God's attentiveness rather than detachment. Especially v25 "God saw, He took notice"

      Second:
      We see throughout scripture that God is patient with wickedness so that all might have an opportunity to repent. There is a line of wickedness that only he knows. When it has been reached he sends judgment.
      1 Thess 2:16 "...In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last."
      Gen 15:16 "...the sin of the Amorites has not yet reached its full measure."
      Matt 23:32 "Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!"
      Gen 19:13 "we are going to destroy this place. The outcry to the LORD against its people is so great that he has sent us to destroy it."

      God's response to the mistreatment of Israel was to destroy the land, kill every firstborn of every household, and drown the entire Egyptian army. Let us praise God that he delays the punishment our sins deserve until all who will have repented.

      Third and most importantly:
      God's highest purpose is not our greatest comfort, it is his highest glory by means of his people's greatest good.

      God's plan is not to prevent suffering - though he cares and hears it all. "You keep track of all my sorrows. You have collected all my tears in your bottle. You have recorded each one in your book." Psalm 56:8

      God's plan is to bring himself glory - by means of working for his people's good. (Eph 1:3-14; Rom 8:28)

      We have a sin problem and like any deep infection it requires surgery to cut out the source. Because of the nature of our infection - God doesn't use anesthetic during our surgery! "No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it." -Heb 12:11

      As bad as their suffering in Egypt was, they still complained again and again on the way to the promised land "we had it so good in Egypt!"
      “If only we had died by the Lord’s hand in the land of Egypt, when we sat by pots of meat and ate all the bread we wanted. Instead, you brought us into this wilderness to make this whole assembly die of hunger!” Ex 16:3

      Can you imagine if they actually hadn't suffered at all? Ultimately that generation was not allowed to enter the promise land, but their children born in the suffering of Egypt, witnessing their parents sin and the judgment on them, gave themselves to following God and entered the promise land.

      God's plan was also to glorify himself through Pharaoh. Not by corrective surgery, but by divine justice and judgment. "For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”" -Romans 9:17

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  2. I have a couple of questions from Exodus (and I'm only halfway through!). None of them seem are huge questions, I guess I'm just curious. Please feel free to answer and/or ignore any or all of these!!

    1 - Ex.1:5 - "The descendants of Jacob numbered 70 in all..." Then in a footnote it says Masoretic text says 75. I understand that there are other versions of the Bible, but I was wondering - who are the other 5? I think this was also in Genesis.

    2 - We haven't gotten there officially yet on the schedule, but I was wondering why Christians don't celebrate Passover holidays. It seems like something important. Maybe that one is kind of a deep question. Also, related to this, what's the big deal about yeast? There are quite a few verses talking about how not to eat leavened bread or have yeast in your house etc. What's the significance?

    3 - Why do we (as in lay-people who don't really know much about the Bible yet) know so much about Moses, but not Aaron? Is it because of Hollywood etc.?

    That's all for now! Thanks!

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    1. I love it!!!I myself had a few questions already and am writing them down and if no one else asks them I will ( I do however have one I'll be asking now ;)) And like we had the same SOAP yesterday we had the same idea about Passover, why don't we celebrate it? Can't wait to see these answers!

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    2. Sorry for the delay! I will answer in separate replies:

      1.
      Yes, it was also 70 in Genesis 46:27. Stephen uses the 75 count in his speech in Acts 7:14. Gill gives an excellent account of the numbers which I will add below. Basically it depends on who you choose to count. Actual descendants, The "household" meaning head and heirs (some of which could be "adopted" such as Joseph's sons), or the family in general including wives. The numbers are also based on whether you are counting his household going down to Egypt in the larger sense which would include Joseph and his two sons which Jacob took as his own sons, or if you mean who went down with Jacob when he went down to join Joseph.

      Usually in these lists of numbers is not to show dry facts which would be a normal number count, but to show God's working to fulfill prophecy and promises. So the counts of tribes we see in the future tie back to these main family leaders and show God's fulfillment of the prophetic blessing given by Jacob over his sons at the end of his life.

      Here is John Gill's explanation:
      "Then sent Joseph,.... Gifts and presents to his father, and wagons, to fetch down him and his family into Egypt, Genesis 45:21.

      and called his father Jacob to him, and all his kindred, threescore and fifteen souls; which seems to disagree with the account of Moses, who says, that "all the souls of the house of Jacob, which came into Egypt, were threescore and ten", Genesis 46:27. But there is no contradiction; Moses and Stephen are speaking of different things; Moses speaks of the seed of Jacob, which came out of his loins, who came into Egypt, and so excludes his sons' wives; Stephen speaks of Jacob and all his kindred, among whom his sons' wives must be reckoned, whom Joseph called to him: according to Moses's account, the persons that came with Jacob into Egypt, who came out of his loins, and so exclusive of his sons' wives, were threescore and six; to which if we add Jacob himself, and Joseph who was before in Egypt, and who might be truly said to come into it, and his two sons that were born there, who came thither in his loins, as others in the account may be said to do, who were not yet born, when Jacob went down, the total number is threescore and ten, Genesis 46:26 out of which take the six following persons, Jacob, who was called by Joseph into Egypt, besides the threescore and fifteen souls, and Joseph and his two sons then in Egypt, who could not be said to be called by him, and Hezron and Hamul, the sons of Pharez not yet born, and this will reduce Moses's number to sixty four; to which sixty four, if you add the eleven wives of Jacob's sons, who were certainly part of the kindred called and invited into Egypt, Genesis 45:10 it will make up completely threescore and fifteen persons: or the persons called by Joseph maybe reckoned thus; his eleven brethren and sister Dinah, fifty two brother's children, to which add his brethren's eleven wives, and the amount is threescore and fifteen: so that the Jew (w) has no reason to charge Stephen with an error, as he does; nor was there any need to alter and corrupt the Septuagint version of Genesis 45:27 to make it agree with Stephen's account; or to add five names in it, in Acts 7:20 as Machir, Galaad, Sutalaam, Taam, and Edom, to make up the number seventy five: and it may be observed, that the number is not altered in the version of Deuteronomy 10:22 which agrees with the Hebrew for seventy persons."

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    3. 2.
      The Passover points to Christ as the sacrifice for us. "The Last Supper" that Jesus had with his disciples was a Passover celebration. It is from that supper that we model our communion service. Every time you take communion you are celebrating the Passover!

      However, many Christians do, and I highly recommend if you have the opportunity, celebrate a full a Passover service showing how each element pointed to Christ. You can find instructions and an explanation here: http://www.crivoice.org/seder.html

      Yeast- When the Israelites left Egypt they left in such haste that there was not time for traditional bread to rise. So the first reason for no yeast is in remembrance of how God brought them up out of Egypt. Secondly, throughout scripture yeast represents sin. As yeast works its way through all the dough, so sin left in "the camp" of the Israelites would work through the whole community, or sin if left in our own lives or in the church works its way around and taints the whole.

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    4. 3.
      Moses is talked about more throughout the rest of the Bible and in the New Testament. His life was typical of Christ meaning that it pointed to and teaches something about the promised Messiah. (40 years in the desert/40 days of Jesus testing in the desert, Delivered people out of Egypt through Red Sea into promised land/delivered people out of sin through baptism into salvation, etc.) He had a closer relationship with God. Aaron's approached God once a year through sacrifice into the Holy of Holies, Moses went regularly into the presence of God as a friend. Moses' beard is cooler than Aaron's in the movies.

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  3. 13: 19 Moses took the bones of Joseph with him because Joseph had made the sons of Israel swear an oath. He had said, God will surely come to your aid, and then you must carry my bones up with you from this place.

    So my question is: When Joseph was still alive people weren't oppressed etc so why did he say that he thinks God would come to their aid...or did he know what was going to happen?

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  4. Yes.

    God told Abraham, God told Jacob, and Jacob told Joseph. Joseph told his brothers and made them swear an oath to him. The oath was passed down through the years and Moses kept it.

    Genesis 15:13-16 Then the Lord said to Abram, “Know this for certain: Your offspring will be foreigners in a land that does not belong to them; they will be enslaved and oppressed 400 years. However, I will judge the nation they serve, and afterward they will go out with many possessions. But you will go to your fathers in peace and be buried at a ripe old age. In the fourth generation they will return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites has not yet reached its full measure.”

    Genesis 46:1-4 Israel set out with all that he had and came to Beer-sheba, and he offered sacrifices to the God of his father Isaac. That night God spoke to Israel in a vision: “Jacob, Jacob!” He said. And Jacob replied, “Here I am.” God said, “I am God, the God of your father. Do not be afraid to go down to Egypt, for I will make you into a great nation there. I will go down with you to Egypt, and I will also bring you back. Joseph will put his hands on your eyes.”

    Genesis 48:21 Then Israel said to Joseph, “Behold, I am about to die, but God will be with you and will bring you again to the land of your fathers.

    Genesis 50:24-25 Joseph said to his brothers, “I am about to die, but God will certainly come to your aid and bring you up from this land to the land He promised Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.” So Joseph made the sons of Israel take an oath: “When God comes to your aid, you are to carry my bones up from here.”

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    1. That's so cool! Thanks for linking all these together and showing me the 'story'...And it shows me that if you miss one vital piece of info then you could miss the whole point or interpret something totally different and even wrong...So yes everything is important and in the Bible for a reason...And I will learn something new every time I read it I guess!

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  5. What is a wave offering? Ex. 35:22

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    1. The wave offering was lifted up and waved before God. It was one part of the Peace or Fellowship Offering.

      "This rite, together with that of 'heaving' or 'raising' the offering was an inseparable accompaniment of peace offerings. In such the right shoulder, considered the choicest part of the victim, was to be 'heaved,' and viewed as holy to the Lord, only eaten therefore by the priest: the breast was to be 'waved,' and eaten by the worshipper." - Smith's Bible Dictionary

      The peace offering was the last in a series of offerings after sin had been atoned for and symbolized that the people had peace and fellowship with their God. It is a rare time when a non-Levite got to eat part of the sacrifice. It also symbolized the ratification of a covenant as we see in Exodus 24.

      Jesus is our peace offering and our wave offering- He was "lifted up" on a cross and his flesh is the portion we eat as a symbol of the peace we have with God. His death also is the ratification of the new covenant as Jesus referred to the cup as "the new covenant in my blood."

      In Exodus 35:22, we see the joyful nature of the wave offering as a celebration of peace with God. The people brought their gifts to the Lord voluntarily because he had not wiped them out like their sin with the golden calf had deserved and he had agreed to go with them after he had said that he would not because they were stiff-necked. They had removed the gold jewelery that they offer at this point at the time he said he would not go with them, and now he has promised his presence, so they have peace and fellowship with him - hence the wave offering. (Exodus 33:1-14)

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  6. Question from Minho:
    BTW, I have a question. How can I, as a novel believer, define sins ? Since I haven't read through the Bible thoroughly, I don't either know or remember all the commands God has given us. I know I sin without my own awareness or sometimes intentionally but how do I know what I do is sins. As I try to know more, curiosity snowballs. I wonder even being curious can be a sin

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    1. God's grace teaches our hearts to turn from sin:
      Titus 2:11-14 - "For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, while we wait for the blessed hope—the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good."

      The Bible is the primary way we learn what sin is:
      2 Timothy 3:16 - "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,"
      Psalm 119:9, 11 - "How can a young man keep his way pure? By living according to your word. I have hidden your word in my heart that I might not sin against you."

      Sin is summed up as falling short of Love:
      Romans 13:8 - "Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law."
      Matthew 22:36-40 - "“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”"

      We can ask God to keep us from sin; both known and unknown:
      Matthew 6:13 - "lead us not into temptation"
      Psalm 119:12 - "Praise be to you, O Lord; teach me your decrees."
      Psalm 19:12-14
      "Who can discern his errors?
      Forgive my hidden faults.
      Keep your servant also from willful sins;
      may they not rule over me.
      Then will I be blameless,
      innocent of great transgression.
      May the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
      be pleasing in your sight,
      O Lord, my Rock and my Redeemer."

      Our conscience -if kept clean before God- can be a guide:
      Acts 24:16 - "So I strive always to keep my conscience clear before God and man."
      1 Timothy 1:19 - "...holding on to faith and a good conscience. Some have rejected these and so have shipwrecked their faith."
      Romans 14:22-23 - "So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves. But the man who has doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin." (whatever we do against our conscience is sinful, even if the thing itself was not sin)
      1 Timothy 4:1-2 - "The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron."
      Ephesians 4:19 - "Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, with a continual lust for more."

      Rest that the blood of Christ covers all sins, known and unknown:
      1 John 1:9 - "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness." (in context, this is confessing our general sinfulness, not that we have to list each and every sin to be forgiven.)
      Romans 5:20 - "But where sin increased, grace increased all the more"
      Romans 8:1 - "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,"

      So to avoid sin:
      1. Receive God's grace through Jesus Christ so that you desire the good and hate the evil
      2. Study the Bible to learn what pleases God and how to live a holy life
      3. Let love be your guiding principle in determining what is sin
      4. Ask God to teach you how to keep from sin
      5. Keep your conscience clean and sensitive to conviction
      6. Rest and rejoice that Jesus Christ has taken care of all of your sin!

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    2. Thank you so much, Pastor Brandon, for your kind answers and all the references. Have a blessed weekend!

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  7. Link to see some pictures regarding the Tabernacle
    http://koti.phnet.fi/petripaavola/Tabernacle

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